MARVEL CIVIL WAR: The Great Debate

CAPTAIN AMERICA

Forget about the law for a second. Forget about tradition, regulation or even public safety. The underlying issue, the thing that Captain America’s fighting so hard to protect, is FREEDOM.Tony Stark may be a futurist, but it’s Cap who’s looking at the long-term ramifications of superhero Registration, imprisonment and “rehabilitation.” Whatever gains are now being made to quell crime, ease public fears and regulate the superhero population will be for naught when government control supercedes civil liberties. With Tony in charge, if you have superpowers, you either get in line with the government or you go to jail. There’s no choice. There’s no freedom. And who takes over if and when Tony Stark dies? You better believe S.H.I.E.L.D. and the U.S. government have a plan in place to do anything and everything needed in order to retain control of the massive superhero populace. Could the U.S. become a police state? Not if Captain America can help it.

IRON MAN

You may not want Iron Man to win the Civil War. But for the sake of the Marvel Universe, you’d better hope he does.Put aside his questionable methods and you’ll find a goal that’s beyond reproach: ensuring the safety of the civilian population. Think about it: Superhumans are one-man armies, some of whom have the power to singlehandedly level cities or even warp reality. These same “persons of mass destruction” have in many cases taken it upon themselves to fight crime, terrorism and tyranny (however they may define them) with no training or supervision. We wouldn’t tolerate such VIGILANTISM from a policeman with a pistol or a soldier with a machine gun; to permit it for people who carry immeasurably more power within their bare hands is both ludicrous and dangerous. And comparisons to racist policies like segregation just don’t wash: Iron Man wants superhumans to register and receive official training and licensing not because of who they are, but because of what they do—and what they do can be deadly.

and so, I ask you again...

WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON?


Ulasan

selipar berkata…
apa bezanya antara cerita hang tuah dan hang jebat?

pada zaman sengketa, sesiapa yang menyebelahi hang jebat merderhaka kepada Sultan akan dihukum bunuh. hang tuah terlalu menjunjung tinggi Sultannya, hinggakan sanggup menggadai nyawa sendiri. tetapi hang jebat jauh mendahului zaman... raja adil raja disembah, raja zalim raja disanggah. (cukup2lah aku merepek ni).

berbalik kepada soalan WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON?

jawapan aku - HANG JEBAT ... muahahaaa
thesandman berkata…
Tapi kita semua pada side yang ketiga...

HANG KEBUN!
vovin berkata…
aku side Batman...

ohhh, silap universe

my bad...
thesandman berkata…
I thought ur with spidey...? whichever side is he now anyways???

kejap sana - kejap sini.

...decide la cepat!
tim berkata…
Malaysia is be a Taliban state! Teaching kids to kill people, preaching hates and angers, chasing away investors with their seditious, racist, insensitive, incendiary, extremist utterances, unfair to non-malays.

Enough is enough!

To all the people out there, Please vote for a change! Vote the opposition! Vote the DAP!
vesewe berkata…
Malaysia belongs to the ethnic Chinese as much as the malays. The malays are not the original aborigines in malay Peninsula. They have only arrived in Malaysia just a few hundred years earlier than the Chinese who have been there since the Tang Dynasty or earlier.

And there are many other indigenous peoples in Sabah and Sarawak who are not related to malays at all. Therefore Malaysia is not the country of the malays alone. It is just as much the country of the Chinese and the many other races from the Indians to the many aborigines and indigenous peoples.

For the Chinese - the British colonial era was much more beneficial than the current malay bully era. During the British colonial era the malays were polite and the Chinese held just about all the highest positions in the government and the police.

Now there is hardly any Chinese left in the government and the police. And while the Chinese were allowed to do any business during the colonial era, they are now not allowed to do anything other than own a few shops.

The society was also much safer during the colonial era. There were hardly any crimes when the efficient Chinese police officers ran an efficient police force to minimize crimes.

And the Chinese were very safe being able to call on the protection of the Chinese dominated police. And the government was also very clean, corruption free and efficient under the British rule.

Now the government is just a cesspool of corruption where nothing is done. Therefore, for the Chinese - the malays are the daggers in the heart. If Malaysia had remained under the British rule, it would have grown as rich as Hong Kong. The worst thing that has happened for the Chinese is independence.

The Chinese have migrated to Malaysia and other Southeast Asia places as early as the Tang Dynasty more than 1000 years ago. For instance, Mountain Kinabalu means Chinese widow (Mountain Kinabalu is in Sabah, East Malaysia).

This shows how long Chinese people have been in Southeast Asia. Chinese have certainly earned the right to feel they are rightful citizens of any country and place in Southeast Asia.

Furthermore, United Nations does not discriminate against immigrants in any country. The United Nations does not sanction a set of rights for so-called immigrants and natives. All have the same rights. Even in UK no Chinese or Indians have to pay more for food or for housing. But in Malaysia they do. Therefore, the Chinese and the Indians don't need to tolerate this.

It is also bad logic to say the Chinese are recent migrants to Malaysia. As indicated above, the Chinese have been in Malaysia hundreds of years before America was even 'discovered' by Columbus.

If the white Americans are entitled to consider themselves masters of America, then certainly the Chinese have even more moral right to consider themselves masters of Malaysia.

As I have pointed out before, Sabah and Sarawak are not homelands of the malays. The Chinese were in Sabah and Sarawak long before the malays were ever there.

The Chinese have been there longer than the whites have been in America. The Chinese have been in Sabah and Sarawak even longer than the malays. The Chinese have been responsible for most of the wealth of Malaysia. Therefore, they are entitled to consider themselves equal owners of Malaysia.

As I said, the Chinese had been in the government, the military and the police under the British but are now out of the government, the military and the police under the malays. The Chinese were also allowed much more freedom to do business under the British than under the malays.

In fact, the Chinese can now do no more than own small shops. So it is obvious that the Chinese had been better treated by the British than by the malays. Just because the British had created division between the Chinese and the malays does not mean the Chinese are now treated better by the malays.

I have no doubt at all, that if the British had not left, Malaysia would be just as developed and prosperous as Hong Kong or Singapore. The stupid malays have ruined the Malaysia economy while robbing the Chinese.

I didn't see the Chinese fighting the malays under the colonial rule. If there were any fighting - it started after the British had left when the malays started killing the Chinese in the May 13 incident in 1969. And now the malays are constantly threatening the Chinese with more massacres similar to the May 13.
yuking berkata…
We all now know that Umno is a racist party in the mold of the apartheid regime of South Africa in the last century, and also practices a big part of Hitler politics (master race).

These are the salient aspects of Umno politics.

Without these racist politics, where else is the strength of Umno! How can they win elections if they don't show and shout racist and discriminatory remarks to their voters and audiences?
kok berkata…
Ah! This is all no yes The problem is the NEP and the preferential treatment for malays which put them in positions of authority and power, for which they are manifestly unqualified and unsuited.

Get rid of a generation of these under qualified and under suited malays and replace them with the best brains Malaysia has - which of course must mean by a large proportion non-malays and foreigners, and all will be well.

Everyone knows that this is the solution but no one can do anything about it. That is fair enough, but what gets me pissed off is pseudo intellectuals like one who come up with stupid mainstream solutions to problems, of the gutter and sewer - which is where the NEP belongs.

Ah! It is not racist to speak the truth. Let me put it this way - on any objective analysis undertaken - you will find by the sheer reasons that Malaysian public servants were chosen with inferior grades, given inferior training and possess inferior work ethics (i.e. no competition), that many who are members of the Malaysia civil service are if not totally incompetent, clearly second rate.

Get it! You, you, you……….

This goes for army officers, doctors, lecturers, police, etc. Everyone. So you either get rid of them (of course, not as easy as I said) or be weaned off them by recruiting fairly and objective in the future, with eyes on nothing but sheer merit. And there will be some malays in this list as well, but certainly not the 98% who now occupy the public sector.

You are a proper zero (not a hero as you'd like to think) if you can't see that and jump on your high horse. LOL!

It is not true that Chinese and Indians have not been interested. They always have but they know that in the off chance that they are selected the shit they would get, when malays will get promoted and they will remain chief inspectors and majors until retirement.

Really stupid malays will be promoted to higher ranks. Why work for such shit organisations in which promotion is based on race and religion but not ability and performance!

In my experience (I have uncles in police and have lived barracks as well) in every recruitment drive, I have seen there were always loads of Chinese and Indians who turn up (especially for officers position) but they would not be selected.

In the police for example, the few non-malay officer recruits will be taken in one year after the malays of the same age are taken in. Why? So that they will always have seniority.

Not it is frustrating and unfair and unjust! But you don't care because you only care for your malays and so you talk like you do.

If you don't know or don't think this happens, you are a typical malay hypocrite.

By the way if you say: "Malaysia was built on the sweat of all races, not on the Chinese only" - then why should you malay guys get 98% of the public cake, why? Because of your race? But that is racism and racist.

But then how can you be racist if what some one says about Islam is right. He says: "Needless to say, racism in whatever form is anathema to Islam since the religion rejects totally both the degradation and the glorification, of any community or individual based upon color or race."

But thus what about the bigoted NEP? You malay guys do degrade others and glorify yourselves continually. Can't you see that?

There you see, again back to keris and parang. It is in your blood. You can't help.

Hello, the reason why you malays cannot continue this discussion is not because I shout and shut others up, but because your position is legally, morally (law and even constitutionally, that is) and religiously (Islamic, that is) indefensible.

We all can see that as bright as the day, and so can you malays to accept requires fortitude, moral character and strength, which you guys sorely lack.

So we see the theatrics with the keris and parang. Because you malay guys are living on other people's misery and that cannot please your God and for that all of you will suffer.

And so perhaps the reason why your malay community is so ravaged by aids and divorce and drug addiction and incest and single parent, and generally immorality.

Now debate that you malays!
pang berkata…
Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, can teach Malaysia a thing or two about religious tolerance.

I stayed at a 5-stars hotel in Jakarta recently. On the main buffet breakfast table they serve beef bacon and chicken sausages. But on a side table, they have pork bacon and chicken sausages.

A hotel of the same chain in Kuala Lumpur does not give you a choice. What more is there to say?
reek berkata…
This is the politics of finding blame for own weakness or laziness.

What I hate most is when those racist and jealous malays see a well developed township populated and owned by Chinese, and start rambling that the Chinese grabbed the wealth from the malays.

The NEP was abused to enrich only a small portion of the malay population. Now, the pie is shrinking due to global factors and the political elite is looking for scapegoats - and guess what - the Chinese are always blamed, as if working hard and saving is sinful.

As a matter of fact just like Mahathir once stated the government has been giving a lot of opportunities to the malays. The other races prosper because they constantly grab opportunities and create markets for their businesses "without depending on any extra incentives by any governmental sector".

I think this country is wasting a lot of time and energy on this racial thing - actually is an income disparity syndrome, the have and have-nots regardless of race.

Last time all first world. If Malaysia was a body, malay was the bone. Today very sadly, malay is the sick appendix, if remove it, Malaysia will be healthier.

It is a tiring affair to talk of the problems of malays. The problems are too many.

We talk and talk and give resolutions to government to do, i.e. we talk but we are not doing anything about it and rely on others.

The typical discussion would be to say malay is weak in this and that. And the immediate inference is to have what is missing. Too often we are fixing symptoms and not problems.

We have tried and pump money into so many programs but we have yet to create the malay industrial and commercial class.

In any corporate strategy implementation, the key aspect lies in leadership and corporate culture.

For a change, I believe let us have an action oriented discussion. Maybe let us start to think and act independently. With a realistic appreciation of the parameters, only then we act more realistically and prudently.

In the end, we the common people must not be fooled by the political elite. We are risking our very life.
miya berkata…
Hi I am a malay. And I have never liked the concept of Ketuanan Melayu in the first place. I believe in equality and justice. I believe in fairness. I believe that Malaysia should be for all Malaysians not just malays.

It is wrong to be double standards. It is wrong to discriminate and oppress the minorities. It is after all, against Islam. But oh, the Muslim people I know would rather talk about appearance and threats rather than addressing the basic issue of human rights and justice in Malaysia.

I am sorry that you guys have to suffer the consequence. We should all turn our backs on MCA, MIC, Umno and those craps. Opposition seems to be fighting for the better Malaysia for all Malaysians. And I support the effort.
ruyom berkata…
To me, Ketuanan Melayu is the false notion of malay greatness or malay supremacy. Truth is - there is nothing to associate the malay race with greatness.

By any widely accepted standards, it will be obvious to see that the malay race does not qualify to be called one of the great races of this world. Truth is that the Chinese and Indians have a culture accomplished far greater and much more than these jokers have.

It should be Chinese and Indian supremacy in Malaysia. The only reason why malays have power in Malaysia is because they have the biggest population, and the racist rhetoric of the malay Umno politicians always sway the malay vote towards themselves.

Anyway, back to the untrue notion of Ketuanan Melayu. Let us see what malays have accomplished. Has any malay won the Nobel Prize - no. Has any malay been nominated for the Nobel Prize - most probably not.

By contrast, numerous Chinese and Indians have won the Nobel Prize and various other awards. The Chinese and Indian diaspora is widely recognized as two of the three most successful diasporas in history, the other being the Jewish diaspora. All over the world, Chinese and Indians have become successful artists, CEOs, doctors, filmmakers, scientists, writers, etc, etc.

Name one malay who is widely recognized around the world in his or her field. The only malay whose name might be recognized out of this country is Mahathir, and he is part Indian. Is malay culture recognized as a world renowned culture - no.

Malay culture, if cultures were ranked, would be close to the bottom. What is their culture compared to the great Chinese and Indian cultures that are centuries old and really rich! The Chinese and Indians have a 5000 years old history during which China and India have played a very important part in world history.

Nobody knew about malays until the Indian kings of south India first came here. That is why the oldest archeological remains in Malaysia, in Lembah Bujang, are Hindu temples.

The malay sultanate itself was started by a Hindu - Parameswara. And even at the height of its power, the Malacca sultanate was nothing more than a vassal of the Chinese emperor.

Have any malay architect designed anything worthwhile - no. Have any malay author won the Booker Prize or the Pulitzer Prize - no. Have any malay filmmaker won an Oscar - no. Have the malays achieved anything in sports - no.

Chinese and Indians have achieved all this. So there is no real Ketuanan Melayu. It is a fiction concocted by racist stupid politicians to keep the "kampung malays" happy thinking that they have had a glorious past.

They don't. Their history isn't worth mentioning. You would never find a mention of malays or Malaysia or Tanah Melayu in most books of world history while entire chapters are devoted to the history of China and India.

The discriminative constitution and law of Malaysia is just a recognition of this fact. The malay leaders and to every single malay knows that on a level playing field, the malays will never be able to compete with the Chinese and Indians.

As to the discussions, I can see some hatred in it but then none of it was untrue. I think most Malaysians have done a good job maintaining harmony and peace, but I can see how and why some may be pushed to hatred because of all the discrimination that goes on.

I mean come on, the discrimination towards non-malays is so wide-ranging that I am sure some people will feel robbed.

How do you think a Chinese or Indian student feels when he has worked his ass off to study for STPM and gets excellent result and then sees his malay friends who didn't work as hard and get as good result fly off to the England, Japan, USA etc, under JPA scholarship!

How do you think a Chinese or Indian contractor feels when his superior contract bid loses out to an inferior bid by a malay company!

What is going on in Malaysia is wrong. We should work towards creating a pure meritocracy, because history has shown that only meritocracies prosper and survive. It seems now that the Chinese or Indians don't even get fair representation in legal matters, as illustrated by the Moorthy case. Things need to be changed before bad things start to happen.
aston berkata…
Malaysia is be a Taliban state! Teaching kids to kill people, preaching hates and angers, chasing away investors with their seditious, racist, insensitive, incendiary, extremist utterances, unfair to non-malays.

Enough is enough!

To all the people out there, Please vote for a change! Vote the opposition! Vote the DAP!
aston berkata…
aston agree to tim comment
oversee berkata…
In Indonesia, there are Indonesian Muslims, Hindus, Christians. In West Asia, there are also Arab Muslims, Christians, and even Jews. But in Malaysia, malays must be Muslims to be called malays.

Religion especially Islam, is very effective in controlling the thoughts and minds of a people, and makes it easy to govern them.

However, still most Muslim malays are such a embarrassing and disappointment themselves by practising intense racial sentiment. Very very very few are open minded, and most of these good hearted malays are from educated priviledged and motivated background.

Too sad the leftover Muslim malays are hypocrite rubbish and will always be rubbish.

It is easy to blame malays (for whatever issue) since there are just too many examples out there for the minorities to exploit. Yes that holds some truth to it, so let us forget about the useless racist uneducated malays. Let us examine the 'smart' malays, the new breed malays.

When a smart malay who had the opportunity to get great education (e.g. from Oxford), uses racial sentiment which is a very cheap way to get around pleasuring own's nipples across the political arena, is not that another example of typical malay? Just that in this example it involves a new breed malay, the smart one.

Again, I am rude but these are real.

Every single person born in this Malaysia should have the same equal rights.

If the Muslim community want to respect Islam, they should give the right and protection to the non-Muslims. Not the other way round. For Islam is fair and is beautiful. It is the racist card players who changed the rules and adopted racism as part of their agendas.

It is not true that outside Malaysia the migrants have lesser rights than those living in Malaysia. This is a fallacy and you know it. Migrants (non-malays) are mistreated in Malaysia more than in other countries - go check your facts.

Umno racist sympathizer yet trying to sound reconciling - no constructive comments - all sound as if Umno racist is the one that deserve the chance and have the ability to fix……….all others opposition party are useless!

You expect us non-malays to just accept unfair justice, racism or corruption for 50 years and keep quiet about it? Thank God, he did not create robots. Humans are retaliate, free to belief and choose - ask Umno racist to do its best to block freedom - watch the fall out!

The world is looking at Malaysia - the decision is simple and against human freedom will have to face the world and God too……….one day!

As many have correctly pointed out, Malaysia is the only place in the world where there is institutionalised racism (NEP defined apartheid).

I guess any person who has followed closely developments in Malaysia can already see the brain drain from our country……….so I will not elaborate.

For your information, a large pool of overseas talents and professionals are from Malaysia or were once Malaysians. I even have a fellow PhD colleague pioneering technologies for NASA at MIT, just because they gave him a scholarship. He was rejected straight away by UM of course.

At least in overseas, talents are valued, appreciated, and given a fair go as opposed to the semi-oppressive and exploitative nature of NEP (and its spin offs).

Equal rights for every citizen of Malaysia and that is how it ought to be. The malays seem never enough to be satisfied with they have - such an inferior race with lack of intelligence.

The Malays, Indians and Chinese fought for independence from the British together. Malaysia is born from the strength of Malays, Indians and Chinese. In Indonesia or America, they obtained their independence in a different way. So please don't compare with the rest of the world.

History teach us that the first inhabitant of Malaysia came from China Yunan. The malay originated from the Polynesian. Malay history start from Parameswara who escape from Indonesia and settle in Melaka. During his time, Laksamana Cheng Ho visit Melaka seven times.

Melaka need the protection of the China from the invasion of the Siamese. Without Cheng Ho, there won't be malay history, instead you have Siam history.

Mass influx of Indians and Chinese was during the rule of the British. That was before the creation of Malaysia. Today we have Malaysia, who can claim to be 'tuan'?

God save all of us.

Indeed the real bumis are the Orang Asli, they too are migrated from other places many many hundred years ago!

By the way, if Islam is so tolerable, strong and beautiful, why in Malaysia apostasy is not allowed? If this is a worry, then it only shows how weak Islam is!

I pity Malaysian Muslims, you probably are the least free people in this world! Even Indonesian Muslims are allowed to practice apostasy when they become adults!

USA, UK, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, Japan, Italy, Germany, France, etc - what make them different from Malaysia?

Why are they successful, well most importantly they practised meritocracy system and secondly they don't have law that discriminate against skin colors or religions or minorities.

Sorry facts are facts. Sorry in spite of all, you malays still cannot compete. By the way - you are so wrong that we Chinese do not look towards China.

Where there is money to be made, and where we can improve other Chinese well being be it Malaysian Chinese, Hong Kong Chinese etc, we are looking towards it. You bet. The next world is not Malaysia, a tiny little dot in this world.

Where opportunities exist, we look elsewhere just like Singaporeans they are going everywhere.

If you are to do a study among all Muslim countries, the level of development will be directly proportional to the level of Islamisation of the country.

Just do a study - you will know the fact. The reasons are so obvious why this is so. I do not want to elaborate here to hurt the feelings of Muslims but I mention just two:

- they sidelined the women.
- how many Muslim nations are in deep religious based wars?
- and plus many other activities against productivity.

You cannot have it both ways. Live in this world or live in the after world. There is time only for one.

This is why I see very bleak future for Malaysia the way it is heading - the day when we 'Talibanise' Malaysia.

Our constitution does not say we are a secular state. But by the same token, nowhere does it say we are an Islamic state either.

A country can be Islamic but yet remain secular in government. Turkey, Egypt and Algeria are prime examples. As long as the constitution remains the supreme law of the land, we are an Islamic country but a secular state.

All these are really non-issues as long as everybody sticks to the original game plan.

Look at it one way, it seems like they want to keep the NEP because they are taking advantage of perks and curbs, keep the Umno linked filthy rich.

First of all, the NEP has no goodwill towards the non-malays. They think that the non-malays are rich and can afford to run overseas because of the drought of local university places available?

This is another fallacy. Truth is a lot of the non-malay parents have to work their asses off, keeping a small unit family, just to use all their savings to finance education overseas because local opportunities are not forthcoming and not available.

Malaysia lose a lot of talents in such a way, especially when the NEP has indeed made certain non-malays very competitive on the global scale. For these people having been successful overseas and given a fair go at the opportunities, they will think twice to come home to adversity in Malaysia.

And that is a fact. Do you know that we lose almost 80% of our local talents to the US, UK and Australia every year! Go check the emigration records. Do you know that the Malaysian contingent is the largest oversea students in Australia, and almost 100% that succeeds takes up Australia PR and citizenship?

That is exactly the formula used by many progressive countries including the US, UK, Australia, even China.

These countries have policies that stress both the affirmative action to aid the poor and complement it with an emphasis on high standards, including robbing other countries of their human capital by enticements such as international scholarships.

So I can't understand why it is not palatable or applicable to the malays! Why lay back when you have the world as a challenge.

The failure of the various Malaysia communities to integrate is not because there is no common language, but the ill will festered by the outmoded communal politics that Umno Youth seems want to perpetuate, the NEP, and the lack of Malaysia kinship (e.g. one race want to be tuan).

It is only nature that human beings and animals learn more from failure than success. So, be prepared for a soul cleansing in the next 10-20 years in Malaysia.

Yes, the one common denominator is that they are all not Muslim countries. Even among Muslim countries, the less that Islamization is the focus of national existence, the better off the society from a social, political and economic standpoint.

That is why Turkey used to be relatively better off in various aspects compared to other Muslim countries but this has been starting to change recently.

Hate to say it but yes, obsession with Islam is anathema to progress, political stability, peace and economic well being.

We agree that it is difficult to manage a multiracial country like Malaysia with its diverse religions and races. It is also obvious from the discussion that the current political and economic model has failed us, particularly with regards to racial integration.

We are heading towards a crisis. We need to have a paradigm shift in our socio-economic model. Otherwise the omens look bad.

Now humans are humans, be it malays, Japanese or Israelis, when one is in absolute power there will be a tendency to sideline the minorities. Arrogance and abuse will crop in. There is no doubt about it.

To be developed, there should be peace, good sense of responsibilities, equality and cooperation. Of course, good leadership and governance is equally important. Every party should not to be made to feel deprived.

I still feel that mixing religion with politics is not wise - for we can see around the world almost everywhere trouble spots are based on religious differences and in countries where religion is part of politics. That is the reason why Malaysia although a Muslim country should remain secular.
samp berkata…
Badawi should resign immediately. I will never vote for a party that promotes hate amongst the people.

Badawi is known for his "cakap tak serupa bikin" attitude, and this sets a very bad example for all his down liners, such that high level crimes and corruption thrives.

Malaysia is losing FDI everyday to other countries, and does not have a clear direction politically and economically. It is only a matter of time before Malaysia becomes a pariah state.
thesandman berkata…
HHEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY !!!!!